Audio file
Coaching Manager Skills Corner Podcast.mp3
Transcript
Alexis Donachie
Hi everyone, welcome to manager Iqs manager, Skills Corner, podcast manager. IQ's mission is to provide an online space where managers can access all the resources, learnings and tools to build their manager toolkit and also to provide you with a community of managers to lean on. We want to build. The confidence and capability of managers, which will enable their success and have this positive ripple effect to their people and the businesses that they support. We currently have a new manager development programme and manager, growth, membership site and podcast such as the Manager Interview series and the manager Skills Corner Podcast. This podcast is designed to bring experts in specific areas of management to share their knowledge and experience with the manager IQ community. We want managers to be able to easily consume information on the goal and increase their understanding of a particular skill. We share tips and tricks which you can implement into your management practise. For more information about MENA dry, cute and our products, check out our website www.menagerieq.com. Now let's check out today's. We're here today to talk to Jessica Peoples, founder of People perspectives, a coaching space where your work, life aspirations and ambitions can become a reality. We're excited to talk to Jess. She has a decade of experience across numerous of different sectors and industries that Jessica has been in London. She's been in Brisbane, she's been in Sydney, she's been all over the place. And formally from New Zealand as well. So it's got a raft of knowledge internationally that she can bring to this conversation. She's very passionate about creating new pathways for others to reach their. Potential and that's the reason why Jess founded her own company called People Perspectives.
Speaker
Jess, give us a little bit.
Alexis Donachie
Of a background about you that I haven't covered in the introduction and. And why coaching? Is so exciting for you?
Jessica Peoples
Yeah. Thank you, Lex, and thank you for your generous introduction. So I started my coaching journey about four years ago and more formally, I've I've done some training. Through the ICE. Well, and for me, I've always been told I'm a inquisitive person. I am genuinely curious and, you know, just from those initial conversations with my my first coaches, I just started to see such a significant impact that coaching. And have on people in all aspects of their lives. And so I continued that journey. And as I got, I think, you know, talking to people in other organisations and even outside of work I. You know, it's such a important skill and can have such a positive impact. I would really love. To I guess broaden my my scope and and impact more people. I think you know the pandemic also gave me some. Motivation to to do a my side business and and also potentially look at, you know, international reach and working more broadly outside of my geography and now that virtual work has become very much the norm. So yeah, I started my business about. And I'm excited to kind of see where it goes and and the so. The rest of the year.
Alexis Donachie
That's fabulous. And I love that. I I hear a lot of stories now around how the how the pandemic has actually sparked people thinking around what else they could be doing other than what they do on their day to day. The job but. Also I get the. Sense that people really. Do want to make an impact on others and on their themselves. So I'm finding that I'm talking to a lot of people who are now starting to think a little bit more broadly. Around what they. Can do differently and to guess further cap or if energy be energised and so forth. So I'm I'm excited to see you know where you'll take people perspectives. And I can I can guarantee knowing you that you're going to make a lot of impact on on individuals life. So that's going to be absolutely fantastic. Let's, I guess get done to to the definition. In your view. Around what is? Coaching and so we can give everyone who's listening to this podcast a little bit of an understanding, but I'll get onto the same page as we go on to further deep dive into the space.
Jessica Peoples
Coating gets thrown around a lot and I I think you know you can have a coaching mindset. You can ask good questions you you can coach on the job. But when we we talk about coaching, it's really about working with people that are well and helping them get from. Where they are to where they want to be. So it's really helping people reach their potential. I heard a really great comment by Carol Kauffman recently and it was saying you she was saying that, you know, counselling is almost helping people with their Trail of Tears and coaching is very much about helping people. But you know their dreams. So it's really about that Ford Focus focused mindset and really it's the skill is less talking and more asking. So you help people think more deeply and really create insights themselves that they might not have thought of without a coach.
Alexis Donachie
I agree. I do believe that coaching is, you know, fun around. A lot, and I think there is more and more, I would say, maybe pressure for managers to upskill in this area to be better in this area, but I know from my own experience stacking up, coaching is quite daunting. I feel that as a a big talker myself and. And probably more mentor by natural, you know, skill set. And I found coaching quite difficult in the sense that I kept on thinking what is the next question to ask like that. I felt like I was, you know, like forgoing the listening to think about the next question so I could get the next quest. And art, is that something that you know, through your training that you've experienced or have to overcome as well? Have you heard that from other coaches?
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, absolutely. And similarly, I am an extrovert. I like a chat. I think, you know, we have been taught throughout our formal schooling years and the way that we even come up through institutions such as universities and organisations that we need to have the. Answer I know even just as a as a child and growing up, you know, you were told have the answer you want to get the answer right. And so for me, it has been unlearning a lot of that behaviour. I I even have to practise as a parent, not to just jump in with. My opinion or my answer because I know from the training and experience that I've. Sad. Really just holding that space, taking the pause, allowing the silence to happen. Has a really positive impact and it's not perfect all of the time, but yes, I agree it's been hard work for for me as well, and I still don't get it right all of the time, but much more comfortable with.
Alexis Donachie
Umm, yeah, that's so interesting. And I love the idea of practising. With those who are around. You in the same space. Be at your kids. You know your husband, your wife, your partner, you know, whoever your friends you know, just in a conversation, just sitting in the silence, a little bit in letting them, you know, really explain what they're trying to say and and so forth. Particularly in a different way, I guess is another good way of doing it. So I like that kind of almost. Like hot tip that you waved in there. For managers themselves, so you're talking about moving a person from position A to position B. If a manager was going to look at their people, when would they identify that? It's a good time to start coaching somebody.
Jessica Peoples
Oh, look, I don't think there is any bad time to start coaching somebody. From my perspective, there's absolutely a time and a place. So there are times where people do genuinely need a bit of help or guidance or advice with managers. It's really about starting to understand. What coaching is going to? Do for you. So how can your people benefit from it? What behaviours will change from it so? As a manager, if you are early in your manager career, you know maybe just start trying to ask a few more questions. Maybe just. Have a bit more self awareness about how much talking you're doing. And if you get to the point where you feel more comfortable to start practising some of those on the job, short, sharp coaching conversations, perhaps share that with your your employees and just say, hey, look, this is something come trying, you're going to hear me asking a few more questions and really sit with the question. And take a bit of time to reflect and. Think hmm. How is that different to? If I'd just jumped in and provided advice straight away?
Alexis Donachie
I love that. I love the idea of actually being open and transparent. The fact that you are building that. Skill and and that. You're going to be trying it out and I guess it opens the conversation to also getting feedback around how the, you know, the few additional questions worked for that individual so that you can see the impact. So I really like that. I think that that's such a good way to start. Off your your coaching and and being able to then slowly evolve and get more comfortable with asking the questions and sitting. In the silence. Has there been instances in your experience where individuals have almost, you know, within the team, push back on coaching a little bit or or not being open minded to it or?
Jessica Peoples
Yes. And I think it's often the case that there may not have been role modelling or the intention set that it's OK not to have the answers. So you might have. Employees that feel like they need to respond straight away and they can't get something wrong. Or have a. Go so that can often impact the coaching dynamic. And again, it's about being really clear about why coaching's important, we know that when we ask a good question. And people feel seen and heard. That's a really, really important way to build trust. So I guess I would invite the listeners to just take a moment and reflect. Is there a time where your manager has just jumped in and spoken over you and provided advice and actually you're sitting there thinking, OK, so they don't really care what I think or they don't. Want to know what my opinion is or they haven't actually even asked me how my day was? They've just jumped right in to task based conversations. It doesn't feel good and there is just so much research to show that by even just asking a question. It can build trust and show that people that they they. Feel they cared. About you know you want to hear what they have to say and we know that that then fuels innovation.
Alexis Donachie
Another idea of, you know asking good questions or you know, I guess you also spoke about having a curious mindset yourself. I think earlier in the conversation. So I guess that's what's about asking good questions. Having a curious minds. This will help the individual feel like you trust them, and you need your care about their opinion. But I also. Think from a manager's perspective. It will also reduce the level of assumptions that take take you know place in the persona's mind and that manager's mind because they're asking more questions. They're understanding the other side, the other perspective what I've found. Even for myself and my own management practise in the past is that I've got into a conversation thinking this individual didn't prepare well enough. You know they didn't do. Whatever it was so. I've had all these assumptions in my mind. However, once I said to ask a few more questions, I realised that. The task was. Delegated to them at the last minute or you know something else was going on for them personally or. They maybe they they the way. That I articulated the ASK wasn't necessarily how they had heard the ask, whatever it might be, what I liked about the going into the conversation was that. Coaching, you know, asking questions approach, it meant that I was able to wash away all those assumptions and actually help us both get onto the same page around what happened in that scenario where to get to, you know, if that scenario happened again.
Speaker
Yeah, and you don't.
Jessica Peoples
Have to be an executive coach. You don't have to necessarily go and do formal training the I guess the advice for this for this group listening to the the the podcast would be just ask one question at a time. So in that example lex it might be, hey, this is what's happened. You know, can you help me understand what got in the way? What might you have done differently next time? And can you see how that's very different to jumping in with you didn't do this delivery? Well, this didn't happen, you know. Tell me why. It's a very different feeling and at least then if you have have given them the opportunity to feel seen and heard. They might come back and go. Yeah. I just didn't do it. And you go? OK, well, at least they know that I've I've checked before. I've made assumptions you know, the other really, really common thing that I see is that when managers don't ask good questions, they might end up unintentionally. Doing work that they really don't need to. Doing and it's a bit of a double edged sword because they think they're helping, but really they're not empowering that person. They might be creating a bottleneck. They are then almost sending a message that they don't think the person can. Do it. So it's a very big difference if one of your team comes to you. And doesn't know how to do something instead of just jumping in and doing. It and giving. Advice. Ask one or two questions, help them have a go. And the hope would be that next time they are more inclined to give it a go themselves, which you know is a win win for everybody.
Alexis Donachie
Yeah. Yeah, I guess coaching is almost like an investment. I think in your people, an investment in their development, but then also an opportunity for the manager to create capacity, innovative thinking, you know, for themselves, I guess, and their people. But it's a huge, it's got huge potential to have. You know, quite wide reaching impacts for for the team and for the manager themselves.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah. And particularly in this context, so we know with rapid technological change, jobs are becoming more sophisticated. You know, we've got AI coming out and just week by week, getting more sophisticated. What does that mean? Well, it means that we're having to unlearn rest skill. We're working in really complex. Environments innovations going to be really important, collective thinking is going to be really important. Change is just moving so fast. We can't work the way we used to, so being curious is a really, really important skill to have as a manager, because you're just simply not going to be able to have all the answers going forward. So it's so important that you are able to ask other people and create that environment where people don't feel like they have to have the. Answer and they can come at new problems or tasks in a really curious way and and work more collectively.
Alexis Donachie
Yeah, it's quite interesting because I've heard quite often leaders or other people in my environment speak about some of the fundamental learning opportunities that they had when they were, you know, junior and going into their career is when their manager actually coached them. You know that maybe we're talking about day-to-day coaching and for tasks or, you know, projects that are on because what it ended up teaching them, not necessarily how to do that specific task, but how to problem solve, how to be curious, how to approach things in a different way so that they're able to then identify what's the path to the answer is or you know what the answer is itself. It comes up time and time again around. That's one of the more powerful skills that a manager has provided to their people.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, I've seen that too. I've, I've felt that myself as well. So I think you. To pull that all together, there's two parts to it. If your manager is curious, you feel like they care. They've heard your perspective. They've tested their assumptions with you. And they're showing that they're invested in your development.
Alexis Donachie
Yes, fabulous.
Jessica Peoples
So bit of a win win I think, although I'm probably biassed.
Alexis Donachie
No, that's fabulous, so. Your new manager looking to build your manager toolkit well, the new manager development programme is just for you. We cover 4 modules which is looking at what is the role of the manager? How do you set yourself up as a manager? How to set your team up and then looking into the future. We have an excellent free trial that is available to all. If you would like access to it, please visit our website today www.www. Dot manager iq.com. What are some of the, I guess, barriers that we might not have talked about for managers either starting out or even managers that do have experience with coaching that might be useful to let the? Managers on this. Call know about.
Jessica Peoples
Well, I think we've mentioned a couple of them and that is that we are we tend to be programmed to have the answers that is still something I observe even with my own children at school. So I worked very hard with them to help them think of it differently. And so I think you know that is a barrier and I would encourage everybody listening to really just test yourself, you know, next time you don't have the answer, just be more aware of that feeling that comes up and it can feel uncomfortable. So I guess the way that we recommend. You overcome that is to really just acknowledge that. And learn to, I guess, name the emotion and work through it, and then be curious again to be really mindful of what your you know, your your next steps are. It's really accepting. It's OK not to have the answer and it's going to be really important that managers role model that themselves with some vulnerability. Another barrier? That I have observed is there's a tendency for coaching to focus on underperformance. So I think you know, if we can shift that to be more mainstream, more broader as in, you know, day-to-day coach, you might even really flip it on its head. To say hey, what went really well, you know, that was a really great outcome. What do you think it was? That you did. That led to that. And you can see how that's quite different to really draw out the behaviours and so people are clear on what they should keep doing as well. So you know that would be the second thing I'd say is coaching doesn't have to be to solve a problem or develop somebody. It can be day to day to really just start to think about those observable. Behaviours. The things that you want to see and hear and observe others, and that could be something that they keep doing as well.
Alexis Donachie
I love that I love the. Idea that it's you know. Coaching for one and coaching for all, I guess.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, yeah.
Alexis Donachie
Is the mentor right? So I I agree wholeheartedly that that's the case, and I do wonder if it's something that can be implemented as part of, I guess a teams culture in the sense it's not necessarily just the manager that can coach, but actually individuals within the team. Can start to ask a few more questions as well and and start to coach each other and even you know it might be to the manager. I mean, I guess if you want to go to the enth degree, but you know to an extent you can actually practise this school set way before you become manager and and help you know your whole team have a whole coaching mindset.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, absolutely. And you can do fun things like question meetings or, you know, talking questions. You can do some role plays where somebody only asks questions. Somebody only gives advice and that's quite a different feeling. You know, I often just do a really simple check. Can this be answered with a? Yes or no. We know that you know the how and the what questions do tend to do a deeper response. One of my favourite simple. Models is the Michael Bunnies Steiner 7 Habits 7 coaching questions and he's got the coaching habit book. And he has these seven really simple questions and it's just, you know, hey, what's on your mind? Pause. And you know that's another really important point. Lex. You know, for the listeners. So asking a question, just one question at a time, just one, that's OK. But listen to the answer and you mentioned earlier, it's so easy to start to think you know what can I say next, just catch yourself. So really, take a take a real make a real effort to to listen and it might be counting, I know. Michael Bunny Stranger does this counting 5 fingers. So just tap 5 fingers and just start to get more comfortable with that silence because you could go out there and ask all the greatest questions in the world, but if you actually don't listen to the answer. Or even demonstrate to the the other person that you're listening. You know it doesn't have the same impact either.
Alexis Donachie
I'll I'll put a a link or I'll just reference the the book that you mentioned there. So if anyone wants to do some some further reading, they're able to do so, especially if you find it so simple and useful. To be able to apply. We've talked about a couple of tips and tricks, you know, ask just one question at the time. Sit and listen, I think there's an aspect of mindfulness in there around, you know, being in the moment and once again, just continually, if you get distracted about what's the next question or something else that's going on, continuously bring yourself back to that moment. But any other tips and tricks that you might want to offer the? The listeners.
Jessica Peoples
Thank you. Socially speaking, then you know self compassion like this stuff is not easy. Human beings are complex. They're working in. A very agile. Fast changing global context. And be kind to yourself. So practise one question. You might not get it right. Maybe the person might look at you weird and think hold on. You've been telling me advice for the. Last, you know. A few years and all of a sudden. Hold on. You're asking me? Question. That's OK if you ask yes. No closed question and you don't really get much back from the person. That's OK. Try again. If you're drifting off, thinking about what you're going to be doing after work and not listening, that's OK just get better. Next time, bring some awareness to it. I know you know. There's a lot of great coats out there, but one I love and I can't remember who said it, but you know, leadership happens one conversation at a time. And so my my I guess. Top top tip would just be one question at a time and start to really create that habit. It might even be with you. You know your kids as you pick them. Up from school. Instead of saying did you have a g'day you might say you know what was the most exciting thing you did today? So just starting to really bring some awareness to some of those questions and make sure you listen and have a bit of fun with it.
Alexis Donachie
Those are all fantastic tips. Thank you so much, Jess. If there was a manager who actually was going to initiate a conversation with an individual around, it might be good for either their career or some sort of behaviour or some sort of performance type scenario that they might benefit from coaching. Would there be a way that you would? I guess articulate that to an individual to get them. Into the right. Headspace to be open to that type of development.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think just. Investing in somebody's development. Generally, is a great. Thing to do so positioning it as a. This could be a really beneficial thing for you to do because some of the things we've talked about today you could incorporate in that, you know, role modelling is really important perhaps if. A manager has benefited from coaching. I know a lot of the coaches that I coach actually share that with their team and they go, you know, hey like we're we're humans, we're all imperfect. I'm doing some work with an executive coach and these are some things I'm trying, so you know as as we kind of. Create cultures where development is. Not just accepted, but the norm because I don't know about you left, but I don't think anyone's perfect. And and in the changing environment, there's always something to do differently. So maybe you can anchor it to that as well. So if you have somebody that has, you know, could do with a bit of. Extra support. Maybe you know. Anchor it to a change that's happening or some sort of a. Transformation. Maybe it's a. New leader I. Would caution managers from sweeping this all in together with performance management so providing feedback and performance management is is a different is a different situation. You would do some coaching in that, but if there's a formal process, you know that's not necessarily coaching. We're talking about coaching as an asking better questions. Creating you know environments where people can think differently. Come up with their own insights, you know, come up with some specific actions that they're going to take to shift their mindset or change behaviour. Yeah. So you know, I think that's just a really important point there. There will be times where somebody might just need a bit of extra support and coaching absolutely could be one of those support options for them.
Alexis Donachie
And and I think it's always about, you know, across so whatever a manager does, it's all about being authentic, right? You don't want to come across as not being authentic, so when you're jumping to the conversation, it's around ensuring that whatever you're doing is actually to the benefit of their success. The team success, the business success, the the individual success, and in particular I think. Can be quite a powerful message for for an individual that a manager is investing in that and wants to see them succeed.
Jessica Peoples
Yeah. And if if I could make one, you know, point for this audience is. We are taught in our training. To coach somebody, you have to see the potential so that there's, you know, a metaphor that there's some gold in there. And I genuinely believe everybody has some gold. It might not come out in every organisation or role or situation, but as a coach you need to see that person's potential and you're helping. Essentially, then move all that rubble and dig through all those you know all that soil and come through those obstacles to get to their. Bold and that's, you know, and a very different different situation as to whether there might be, you know, something else going on, whether it be well being or performance. You know, that's really not what we're talking about like I. Said earlier, we are. Following the trail of dreams, so we're helping somebody get from where they are now to where they want to be.
Alexis Donachie
Yeah. Fabulous. And where they want to be could be short term or long term and and sometimes understanding where the long term is. There's so many little steps you can take to get to the long term so you know can be quite powerful to to I guess even step it out like. Jess, it's been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. And you know, just to, I guess, summarise some of the points that we've made here. Is that your coaching can be for everyone within your team and it can be done just by one asking one more question so you don't have to necessarily have formal education or training. To be a coach when you're in a management role, or even if you're not in a management role, you can be a coach. It doesn't matter what role you play within. The team, and there's been some hot tips since Jesse's shared as well around, you know, asking that one question sitting in the uncomfortable silence. If you feel uncomfortable and actually listening to the answers and making, I guess. I guess just one more question more. Meaningful in building that trust with your people. Jess, any other summaries that? You would make from the conversation. Before we, we head off.
Jessica Peoples
Look, I think the you know, the key thing, the key things you've covered. You know I work a lot with individuals one on one so and an executive coaching setting and sometimes you know helping. Them develop coaching skills as part of that. Another thing I I like to do is also just help with the skills of coaching more broadly in a teaming situation. So yeah, I I would not be sitting here if I didn't see a really, really positive impact and and usually on even over a couple of sessions. So when I work with Coach. Cities it doesn't need to be a long term engagement. The hope would be that, you know, three to six times and they've got their toolkit and they go away and they practise. And if they want to come back for a maintenance session, that's fine, but it is really remarkable how quickly we can see an uplift in the skill of coaching.
Alexis Donachie
Amazing, fabulous and peoples perspectives you've got, you know, individual one on one coaching that you mentioned before you do facilitation you do I guess career and transition coaching you do content design, you have a whole bunch of service offerings there. If anyone wanted to get in touch with with you, what is the best way to do so?
Jessica Peoples
Yeah, great. So peoples perspective, my surname is peoples. So I thought that was a pretty fun play on words. Peoplesperspective.com dot AU and I have an email address there as well and mobile and ioffer a a 15 minute. Complementary get to know you almost chemistry. Check just to check that it is the right time for you for coaching and where the right. Bit so yeah, would really, really be keen to hear from anybody interested in having a chat about the space.
Alexis Donachie
Thank you so much for your time. You've been so generous with both your time and knowledge. I think that managers are going to take a lot away from this conversation and I just love the tips that you've provided, building the knowledge you know of of our. People are now managers in our community is a key focus of Manager IQ. So I feel like we've we've done that today, but we might get you back to us another time for another episode to Deep Dive on another aspect of coaching. So you might hear again from Jess in the future Mandrake community, but for now, thank you so much and have a. Wonderful day. Thank you for taking the time to listen to today's episode. If you have any feedback. Or would like us a deep dive on a specific? Skill please email. Us at [email protected] thanks very much. Have a good day.
